Thunderpig’s Mirror

Ron Paul is a Useful Man for Democrats

Posted by Thunder Pig on November 19, 2007

The Ron Paul story never seems to end — and yet never seems to quite make it into the mainstream media. That’s because, in the political equivalent of a bank shot, Paul’s fringe support helps bleach embarrassing stains from the Democrats.

First there is the revelation that Jim C Perry, the “Orthodox Jewish” head of “Jews for Paul” also calls himself a gay pagan Unitarian.

Now it turns out that Perry, Paul’s point man in response to questions raised by the Jewish Telegraph Agency, is also accused of stealing money from the local New Hampshire branch of the Libertarian Party. What a great guy! It’s only an accusation. And the “Libertarian” Perry was in 2006 running for New Hampshire Legislature as a Democrat.

Oh yes: Then the federal raids started.

It turns out that some folks actually buy-in to Ron Paul’s blither about US dollars being “phony money”. Here Paul is talking about “phony money” at a recent Ron Paul rally outside the Philadelphia Mint with a large crowd including — surprise, surprise, — some more white supremacists. (Who show they fully understand the New Orleans protocol.)

Some of Paul’s gold bug supporters been trying to pass so-called “Liberty Dollars” off as real currency at stores nationwide. Sleepy clerks have given them change in US currency for purchases. Raids have been conducted in the last few days by the FBI and Secret Service at Liberty Dollar HQ in a strip mall office in Evansville, Indiana, (that’s not where I would be keeping three pounds of gold, but I digress) as well as Asheville, NC (here the segregationist ‘Council of Conservative Citizens’ is very concerned) and a private mint located in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho. Arrests were also made recently in Wisconsin (on their blogsite, these geniuses detail three places where the spent Liberty Dollars as if they were legal tender). In 2006 two arrests had been made in Buffalo, NY. The Evanston raid netted a huge load of “Ron Paul Dollars” apparently just delivered from Idaho and backed perhaps by the full faith and credit of… Ron Paul?

Source: The American Thinker


At least Asheville is getting some well-deserved recognition out of the Ron Paul Campaign!
And, I did happen to capture an exclusive video of a couple of Ron Paul Supporters sweating it out as they wait to see if the feds are coming for them===>


16 Responses to “Ron Paul is a Useful Man for Democrats”

  1. vote for hillary online said

    Ron Paul is a nice guy and all, but if you want a real candidate with real values, then you want Hillary Clinton. We need some change in America and we need it now.

    I like to think of America as a suffering patient, where Hillary is an experienced doctor. What we need here is some good medicine.

  2. timpeck said

    Censorship at the ThunderPig?

    Say it ain’t so.

  3. Thunder Pig said

    vote for hillary…:

    that ain’t even funny!



  4. Thunder Pig said

    All comments go to one of email addresses, and there none other than the above matching this post…
    However, you may have been looking for this post, in which Bernard and Robert have been contributing their thoughts.
    I only delete spam, and will censor posts with curse words in them by copying the original into notepad, deleting the original, and replacing the original with the curse words removed.

    My policy is that honest debate only adds value to anything I post, even if the commenter and I disagree. I have had my mind changed by reading what other people believe when they expose flaws in my reasoning. (Escept for those that aim at any blind spots I happen to possess (big grin).

  5. DeathStar777 said

    I believe that Bernard had responded to the last anti-Ron Paul spiel. What I dont understand about this entire mess, is how Republicans these days can find Ron Paul’s ideas to be so radical, yet find Huckabee to sort of be their favorite underdog. True, huckabee has that “traditional” Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell sortof moral policy, but he is also fiscally liberal and all about wrecking free enterprise in the US. When he talks he sounds like a neo-fascist. I think that he, Guillary, Romney, Obamabinladen, and Thompson should all go have a party for the rest of their lives on a deserted Island somewhere, while the rest of the US allows them to slumber in contemptable memory as slowly they are forgotten like the paper towels you threw into the trash a month ago.

    But seriously, I have to question, why not support people who actually care that our forefathers “crowned the constitution as king”(Thomas Paine)? Conservatives? To be a conservative these days require you to spend big bucks to help delapidated third world countries when we have homeless and poor in our own country? To be a conservative requires that religion be shoved down the throat of every US citizen? To be a conservative is to support defunct institutions such as the FED and the IRS? Until about the last 30 to fifty years, to be a conservative was to support the philosophy of the founding fathers, which was entangling alliances with none, a free market, and a free society.

    We are no longer in the dark ages of Crusades and witch burnings. Let the Roman catholic church bury its dead in Europe. Let stupidity be the light to shine upon the face of the foolish Islamic fascist who blows himself up in an oil field or on Iraqi soil, and let him be shot down before he enters the US! Let France be taken over, since their citizens can no longer protect themselves, for that matter,Im part French, and I think Fance would be better off if the french were ruled by people other than the French!
    We fought communism for nearly fifty years, and eventually it fell. The question is, did it fall because of outside harrassment, or did it fall because communism naturally sucks? both as a political/social/economic system? Actually, it would have fallen sooner had we not funded it while at the same time fighting it, as though the worlds nations were pawns in some empirical chess game.

    Domestically, did the prohibition era make America a better country? Sure, if you consider the mafia to be a useful institution. What has drug prohibition done for us? Good things, if you like giving the government another reason that it can invade your privacy, and if you think that completely skewed information about potentially beneficial substances is really making America a more morally inclined country. The IRS is great for keeping the lower class in the lower class. The Federal Reserve also does a great benefit to ederly people who saved up their entire lives for a decent retirement…yeah right.

    THose are some questions that are worth consideration. Nobody else in the Repuiblican or democat parties are asking those questions, and these questions address the very foundational matrices of our government’s policies. For conservatives, why is Ron Paul such an outcast? his ideas are more conservative than any of the other guys, and because of the disenfranchised wing of democrats who soley support him, he is the only candidate who can defeat hil-debeast in 08.

    Happy Thanksgiving,

  6. Thunder Pig said

    None of you address the primary, over riding reason I, and many others, cannot support Ron Paul….his non-support for the war in Iraq.
    I feel that the war is so important that I will vote for Julie Annie if he is the party nominee.
    Ron Paul smells a little like Jimmah Carter in that regard.
    I respect most of his other positions. His position on the war prevents me from supporting him, and makes me want to do everything in my power to keep people from voting for him, including finding out ridiculous supporters to poke fun at. I can’t poke fun at his mopre reasoned supporters because they leave me no room.

  7. DeathStar777 said

    I am inclined to ask, what is it about this war in Iraq that you find to be so important? I would be more willing support this war if A.) congress had officially declared war, B.) If I felt that it was keeping the cost of oil down and not just another excuse for oil profiteering, C.) not just another method of subsidizing the military-industrial complex.

    In the war on Iraq, I feel that it would have been better to have either left it completely alone, or to have gone in a sacked it completely. If it is about spreading democracy, the iraqis do not have the philisophical foundation necessary for such a system of government, and this it is like trying to run a PC program on a Macintosh computer in the 90’s.
    Again I must ask, why is it that this war is so important to you?

  8. DeathStar777 said

    I might add, if terrorism is the issue, then tighter borders that would keep those people out would put a stop to Terrorism in the US. Id imagine that Terrorists would have a difficult time flying an international commercial jet into US airspace without being shot down immediately.

  9. Thunder Pig said


    A) It would have been nice to have a declaration of war (if the official declaration had been against al-Qaeda, Nations that provide support (financial, religious, material, or otherwise), I do not feel a Declaration is necessary because we are not involved in fighting a nation-state. We are involved in fighting a “network of networks”, and sometimes in this long war, we are gonna have to knock over people who are in our way. Saddam was one of those people. Iraq provides a good central operating base from which to conduct our Middle Eastern portion of World War IV.
    It will provide a good place to cover Syria, Iran, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia.
    I believe that Iran will be the first we hit, perhaps in conjunction with an Israeli hit on Syria, if her taking out of the Syrian Nuke Reactor wasn’t good enough.
    B) The reason for the war is for the very survival of western civilization. If we fail, the world enters another Dark Age.
    Watch this flash movie, or You Tube version. I also have a high-resolution copy which I can put online for you to download of the Flash Movie I show to Church and Civic Groups, and in my Security Seminars when I provide security consulting for schools, businesses, and manufacturing facilities.
    One of the greatest Myths of Our Age is that of Oil Profits.
    Oil Companies make a smaller margin of profit on their product than over 90% of the rest of the market.
    The primary entity that profits from oil is the State DOTs, and the Federal Highway Trust Fund. Look at the tax stickers the next time you fill up. That should enrage you.
    And it is not about oil…because if you produce your own fuel, the government still demands that you pay the same tax per gallon that you would if you use vegetable oil, ethanol, or whatever.

    C) The Military-Industrial Complex is outdated, and is actually called the M-I-S-C, which stands for the Military Industrial Sysadmin Complex. This post will introduce you to some of the concepts of the next generation of warfighting, and the necessity for us to be able to adapt and evolve better ways of fighting a type of war that puts you and me on the frontlines.
    People who had no frame of reference could not understand the great wisdom in President George W. Bush when he told us that by going out and shopping, we can help the war effort. They mocked him for being stupid, but they were the stupid ones, because this type of activity contributes to the war machine on so many levels: Economically by the money spent on getting there, to buying stuff there, and the whole notion of participating in the great battle between capitalism and socialism, between Capitalism and the Jizyah.
    If you want to really hurt the war effort. Stay at home. Do not spend any money. Barter. Conduct protests that cost money for the government to police.

    We speak of spreading democracy over there as part of the strategy of enraging the Islamofascists, and baiting them to oppose us…because Democracy is the greatest threat to their plans to re-establish the Caliphate in Baghdad. It’s a threat we can’t carry out, but they don’t know that.
    It is all about a head fake, or counting coup as a taunt.
    Forget everything you think you know about how to conduct warfare that you saw in the first two world wars, and ponder upon the third world war (1947-1989), and google 5GW.
    Do you want the Blue Pill, or the Red Pill?

    This war is the most important effort this country has ever engaged upon since it’s founding, and our very existence as a Free People depends upon it.

  10. Evil Genius said

    The so-called war on terror consists of creating an Islamic Republic in a country that had an evil dictator with a Western outlook and a Roman Catholic prime minister.

    If we REALLY wanted to attack radical Islam, we should have re-armed Saddam and let him take over the real enemy: Saudi Arabia.

    And country that can whip a woman 200 times for being raped deserves to be ruled by an evil socialist dictator.

  11. DeathStar777 said

    Fair point enough, Thunderpig…

    I do have a goood question for you though, have you read Chalmers Johnson’s blowback? I can definately see the strategy you have outlined for outraging islamic fascists by putting democracy in Iraq. I do have two questions for you to consider; first, do you think that the CIA’s training of the Al-Queada in afghanistan to give the soviets their own vietnam was, in the long run, a good move on our parts? Do you think that our treaty with saudia arabia, and of course, the UN, has been a double edged sword for the US, mostly directed at the US. Now, regardless of whatever entity we might be fighting, I feel that it is and should necessary to have a formal declaration of war. Consider the Al Queada a terrorist network, contract to hunt them down like the dogs they are, and if any country should harbor these networks, then have congress officially declare war upon said country. I do not feel that it is right or constitutional to shift unnecessary power to the executive branch, as this sort of unbalanced power is one of the root causes of the War Between the States and the injustices committed against the Native Americans in the 1830’s.
    we, as citizens, are always both the frontline and the last line of defense because we have the right to bear arms, and organize into militias. I would not necessarily want for there to be war on our soil, but who would want to attack a country where its citizens possess start of the art weaponry? Any free and responsible man who is guaranteed liberty will fight for his land, his family, and his friends. He might even fight to protect his government, should the government not impede on his rights (the Patriot Act and Homeland security fund), but instead protect them. What good is being a US citizen if we are not allowed to have liberty and privacy?
    I believe that instead of impeding rights to fight terrorism, we need to give more people the right to defend themselves. A nation is only as strong as its members, not its government. see, in the war against terrorism, the line between foreign and domestic policy is growing more and more faint. While I understand why you feel that it is important to maintain strategic ground in foreign lands, I think that it is more important that we fight any government effort to take away the rights of Americans. the Liberty to defend ourselves and our rights by speech or by force is what makes the US strong.

  12. bernard b carman said

    i’ll probably get to answering TP’s latest reply for me, but in the meantime, there is something no “pro-Iraq War” person has explained to me… what is the victory condition for ending the Iraq War, and the “War on Terror”?

    also, since i already know TP’s dream government would execute a marijuana dealer upon his 3rd conviction, i’d also like to know what this pro-Drug War feels the victory conditions are for the War on Drugs…?

  13. Thunder Pig said

    “there is something no “pro-Iraq War” person has explained to me… what is the victory condition for ending the Iraq War,”

    I’m guessing you just skim this blog for anti-Paul posts, or visit when the anti-Paul alarm goes off, but I answered that very question in a post entitled, Victory in Iraq–The Real Surge.
    and the second part of that question was:

    “and the “War on Terror”?”

    The answer is similar, when the terrorists are defeated, and the various governments have been reformed enough to keep the terrorists beat down.
    In short, not in your lifetime, nor in the lifetime of anyone alive.
    If you would only follow my links “if you can be bothered with it” you would realize that the conduct of war has entered a whole new phase not seen since the full-scale implementation of 4GW tactics by the Viet Cong, the Soviets, and their Hippie Allies in the USA during the Viet Nam War.
    Here is a simpler intro to the 1st 4 Generations if you didn’t understand the “Into the Rainbow Series,” which, if you had read…you would know.

    And, to your last query:

    “i’d also like to know what this pro-Drug War feels the victory conditions are for the War on Drugs…?”

    #1) The southern border must be secured to prevent unauthorized flow of people and material.

    #2) The corruption of low-level and mid-level bureaucrats by the Drug Cartes must be stopped.

    #3) We must be willing to resume our assassin’s war with the Drug Cartels that was underway in the 80s that removed players we couldn’t get at using the legal system.

    #4) We should resume destruction of foreign drug manufacturing facilities…as well as domestic fields and facilities.

    Until those conditions are met, there is no hope of victory in this war against those particular demonic forces. And yes, Bernard, I do associate drug use with demonic activity, alcohol included. We can’t do anything about getting rid of alcohol until we get the other stuff gone. I expect that the only one who will finally get rid of them all is Jesus, when he casts the demons associated with those activities into the pit, and the users with them.
    I like the model that was set up in the very first Mack Bolan book, and have followed that, on a limited scale, for over 20 years.

  14. infinityBBC said

    your “Victory In Iraq–The Real Surge” is pretty much a non-answer to the bigger question which i have asked. if the Iraqi Army can displace our military presence, then GREAT! all we are demanding is to get out of the situation there as soon as possible! however, the Bush Administration has seemingly failed to present such a plan.

    my question deals with the bigger picture: wars designed to have no end.

    if you truly believe it is possible to end terrorism, then you also believe it is possible to end hatred, and even end poverty, etc.

    how about, let’s initiate a “war” against pain and suffering while we are at it?

    TP, how can you entertain the ABSURD with a straight face? you must be one hell of a poker player!

    and you continue to keep badgering me to follow all of your links while you preach absurdities!

    you seem to really be in love with the continued waging of WAR, and yet you claim to be a follower of Christ.

    YES – there is a time for WAR, but there is ALSO a time for PEACE. yet, even when it’s the time for WAR, that doesn’t mean to wage it in a way whereby WE LOSE! let’s also not forget the mandate from Christ about loving thy enemy.

    to refute your absurd comments regarding your War on Drugs “victory conditions”, i’ll take them point by point:

    1. we do not need a Federal War on Drugs to secure our border. in fact, this idiotic WAR ON PEOPLE has been going on now for how long, and we STILL don’t have a secure Mexican border? your point #1 is laughable and is a moot point regarding my question.

    2. by your logic, just wage a War on Corruption, and corruption will somehow miraculously be wiped out! i find it odd to even have to type this, but corruption will never be prevented by humans. i suggest you rethink your strategies in dealing with America’s “drug problem”… actually, i suggest you privy yourself to the REAL drug problem of America, since it seems apparent that you are clueless in this area.

    3. yeah, there’s an idea! let’s just shoot it out with the Drug Cartels! how mobster-ish of you! better idea: take the drug cartels out of the equation by ending PROHIBITION! do you not even realize that prohibition is what BEGAN mobster cartels to begin with??? WAKE UP!

    4. GREAT IDEA! let’s start with destroying all of the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA who are responsible for pushing evil drugs on Americans — and even our CHILDREN! — in the name of “health care”!

    GEEZE, are YOU the poor deceived person who called into the Mittan show saying alcohol should be made illegal also? when that caller said that, we all (including Matt) looked around at each other speechless, somewhat shocked that there are still those among us who are thinking at about the equivalent level of those who lived in the Dark Ages!

    man, don’t you get it? it’s not the device that is inherently EVIL, it’s the abuse of! this is why it was never deemed a sin to drink, but to get DRUNK — BIG DIFFERENCE!

    in fact, there is even a Biblical ‘command’ of sorts to drink alcohol during the Feast of Tabernacles, but it’s not at hand right now.

    Christ’s first recorded miracle was turning water into wine, and please, spare your breath tying to convince me of the typical “Baptist-like” argument claiming it was grape juice. do you also believe it is a sin to dance?

    you know, i don’t browse your, or any other, website looking for anti-Ron Paul rhetoric with which to spend my time on refuting.

    the primary reason i have taken this much time to discuss these various issues with you was because Tim sent us the initial post where you were calling Ron Paul supporters “losers”.

    i thought perhaps that you were some respected or influential local political guru and i should take some time to refute your claims for the sake of those reading them who might be likewise deceived about Ron Paul.

    however, it seems that you refute your own claims with near perfection, as you discredit yourself by making such absurd comments as you have here!

    i think my time spent on your blog has come to a close. i wish you the very worst in decimating falsehoods and deception, and i pray your eyes be opened to the truth.



    bernard baruch carman
    – seeker of truth / seeder of truth • http://www.SeedsOfTruth.org
    – Born to Win supporter •
    – Ron Paul Revolution • • Google Ron Paul!
    – We The People supporter •
    – audio/mac specialist • infinity solutions •

  15. Thunder Pig said

    I answered your question fully and as completely as I could in a short time.

    I will make it shorter for those suffering from a lack of Reading Comprehension brought about from marijuana use.
    We don’t leave until the Iraqis can defend themselves, and even then, we will maintain a caretaker force for decades. I was merely providing links as citations so you couldn’t say I was making the stuff up.

    About the wars with no end…if you followed my links about 5GW, you would see that is our future, no matter what.
    We have returned to an age of warfare as practiced before the Treaty of Westphalia, which put warfare into a government protected monopoly. With 5GW…anyone can participate in war…every will be (and are) on the front lines.
    This is a time for war.
    I stated those 4 items as preconditions for a victory on the war on drugs, as earlier military objectives lead to larger military objectives in war.
    And in part #4, I was referencing illegal drug fields and facilities. I hope you were being obtuse on purpose.

    No, I haven’t called Matt’s show since before you were on there, and listen to Sean Hannity on XM Radio unless I get a heads up to listen, or it is my turn to record.
    I have never advocated prohibition of alcohol since my high school days…so much for “jumping to conclusions.”
    As far a guru goes, I am the largest conservative blogger in the NC-11 District who will focus on local issues, and am a political consultant.
    The biggest conservative blogger locally (in fact the biggest blogger save two or three in the whole state) is Hillbilly White Trash. And he says worse things about Ron Paul and his followers than I do, and he lives in Asheville, too.

    As a troll, Dranred, you have made the troll Nodrog look intelligent…at least he knows when to quit.
    At least you didn’t go on as long as Art “Matt Mittan’s best friend” Patten did. He went on for three months about 9/11 on my warblog.
    And, one thing the Republican Takeover Plot has accomplished is putting me firmly on the side of refusing ballot access in NC to fringe movements.
    Good Night, Good Luck, and Here’s hoping Ron Paul doesn’t go Third Party to give the HildaBeast the White House like Ross “Monkey Man” Perot did in 1988!

  16. Thunder Pig said

    And what do I find in my Google Reader?

    At least I am willing to fight for votes instead of doing an end-run around the system.

    Say you guys wouldn’t consider conducting a putsch?

    Say it ain’t so!

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