Thunderpig’s Mirror

More on the Ron Paul Messiah Complex

Posted by Thunder Pig on November 17, 2007

At first, I thought it was cute, if sad, the losers on overpasses with their mothers bedsheets flapping in the wind with their love letters to Ron Paul spray painted on them for the world to witness.
The, these retards started gaming internet polls, calling for their members to go mob polls on websites to tilt the numbers in favor of their man. That is a dishonest act, sort of like ACORN or other groups who falsely register and often bus people to the polls on election day. This, I believe, reveals something about their character. That so many of them are willing to do these things in support of their candidate reveals something about that candidate as well, and it is not pretty. I smell a tyrant wishing to be born.

What set me off on this rant was the retards printing Ron Paul Coins at Liberty Dollar:
The ardent supporters of Rep. Ron Paul, the iconoclastic Texas libertarian whose campaign for the presidency is threatening to upend the battle for the Republican nomination, got word yesterday of a new source of outrage and motivation: reports of a federal raid on a company that was selling thousands of coins marked with the craggy visage of their hero.

Federal agents on Thursday raided the Evansville, Ind., headquarters of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act and Internal Revenue Code (Norfed), an organization of “sound money” advocates that for the past decade has been selling a private currency it calls “Liberty Dollars.” The company says it has put into circulation more than $20 million in Liberty Dollars, coins and paper certificates it contends are backed by silver and gold stored in Idaho, are far more reliable than a U.S. dollar and are accepted for use by a nationwide underground economy.

Norfed officials said yesterday that the six-hour raid occurred just as its six employees were mailing out the first batch of 60,000 “Ron Paul Dollars,” copper coins sold for $1 to honor the candidate, who is a longtime advocate of abolishing the Federal Reserve. The group says it has shipped out about 10,000 silver Ron Paul Dollars that sold for $20 and about 3,500 of the copper $1 coins. But it said the agents seized more than 50,000 of the copper coins — more than two tons’ worth — plus smaller amounts of the silver coins and gold and platinum Ron Paul Dollars, which sell for $1,000 and $2,000.

Source: Washington Post

Commentary

The Ron Paul Worshippers are starting to creep me out, big time.

14 Responses to “More on the Ron Paul Messiah Complex”

  1. Christopher S. Lawton said

    GO RON PAUL! GO RON PAUL! GOD BLESS RON PAUL!
    RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT 2008!

    1st Best Ron Paul Video
    I am delighted, proud and honored to post this…

    2nd Best Ron Paul Video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFfdB5OzlyQ

    “Freedom is not defined by safety. Freedom is defined by the ability of citizens to live without government interference. Government cannot create a world without risks, nor would we really wish to live in such a fictional place. Only a totalitarian society would even claim absolute safety as a worthy ideal, because it would require total state control over its citizens’ lives. Liberty has meaning only if we still believe in it when terrible things happen and a false government security blanket beckons.” ~Ron Paul, Security and Liberty 04/25/2007

    “It does not take a majority to prevail … but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” – Samuel Adams

    “None are more enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.”
    — Goethe

  2. Anonymous said

    RON PAUL IS A FASCIST

    Well, at least all his friends are.

  3. Fed up with the status quo. said

    Obviously the sheep who would call Dr. Paul a “fascist” haven’t done their homework. I was so disheartened by our political system that I refused to vote in the last election. Mud slinging, distortion of facts, Bush and the republican congress spending like drunk democrats. I was fed up and didn’t feel that there was anyone who represented me anymore… that is until I did my homework (I refuse to blindly believe anyone, politicians, men of the cloth, etc…) I will not partake of the Kool-Aid, and Faux News, Glen Beck, and Thunderhog are not going to tell me who not to vote for.
    I have come to a conclusion that the reason the media dislikes Dr. Paul is because no lobbyist can get favors from him because all of his decisions are based on the Constitution that he swore to uphold. If folks are freaked out by his supporters, do a little research and see why people are so fired up… I can shed some light. A once thought extinct animal has been found… an Honest politician.
    All of you so-called conservatives need to compare Dr. Paul’s views on government with Ronald Reagan’s… Don’t allow the media to think for you. Put down your remote control, get on the internet, look up his voting record, look at his financial statements, and compare who’s donating money to his campaign vs. the “Top tier” candidates… you’ll be glad you did…

  4. Thunder Pig said

    fed up with…:

    Even though I disagree with you, you should NEVER REFUSE to vote because of (fill-in-the-blank). That is when you should get yer dander up, and recruit others to vote like you would.
    I agree with a considerable amount of what Ron Paul says, and diagree on a few points, such as Abortion, Drugs, and World War IV.
    For me, his position on fighting this war is unacceptable in every regard. We must not try to sit this one out, waiting for them to eventually come for us. We must fight them.
    We must fight them everywhere they raise their heads. We must play Whac-a-Mole like no one’s business.
    We should make them more afraid of us than they are of allah. We must make them (the radicals) curse the names of those who dared to attack us, and cause us to become interested in wiping out the radicals.
    I also have the view that those who try to prevent us from successfully conducting this war should receive the same treatment Lincoln gave the anti-war crowd in the Civil War, namely the boot out of the country.

  5. fed up with the status quo said

    We shall just agree to disagree… I felt the same way you did when we were attacked… Why attack Iraq? 15 of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. If our borders weren’t wide open and our troops were home keeping folks who wish to do us harm out, it wouldn’t have happened. Having our armed forces all around the world and not home makes me feel less safe than having Uncle Sam wire tapping without warrants, and passing the “Patriot” Act. Wait… maybe I get it “they hate us because we’re free”… take away all our freedoms… and they won’t have anything to hate!
    We’re in much more danger driving down the road than we are of being attacked by a terrorist, but the media keeps us in constant fear. The abuse of power that our government commits is scarier to me than any terrorist.
    On voting… the lesser of 2 evils is still evil. I’ll not condone it by voting.
    I know what’s next… “If you don’t like it move to Canada.”. My response is “If you want to live in a communist country, move to one. Don’t try to make mine into one.”. According to the Constitution, the government works for us, but that has somehow gotten turned around by people’s complacency.

  6. bernard b carman said

    hey “Thunderpig”, if you’d like, you can come down to the overpass and call us “losers”, “idiots” and “retards” to our faces… how about that?

    OR, do you prefer to continue sitting at home in comfort behind your keyboard and call us names like an adolescent?

    when will “YOU PEOPLE” accept reality? by this, i’m speaking of all the diluted people who think it’s impossible for the Ron Paul campaign to be making as much traction as it is.

    and in doing so, it doesn’t mean his SUPPORTERS are “worshipers” or “followers”, as the media, along with misguided people on misc blogs like you, have been portraying. i am in touch with literally hundreds of Ron Paul supporters who would laugh at the mere suggestion of RP being some kind of “Messiah”! consider getting real!

    and now your suggest Ron Paul is a “tyrant wishing to be born”? are you going to refuse to accept the fact that our country has been run by tyrants for decades (or longer), and then accuse one of the only Congressmen who actually upholds his oath of office to uphold the US Constitution? are you completely mad, or just deceived?

    and then some other uninformed or ignorant person here claims Ron Paul and/or his supporters are “fascist”, with which you apparently agree to a large degree or you would have replied to that statement. everyone reading this apparently nonsensical blog of yours should consider:

    fascism: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

    if anyone does just the slightest bit of research about Ron Paul and his philosophy would know without a shadow of doubt that he is NOT a fascist, nor authoritarian of any kind. but keep talking this nonsense as your local credibility goes to pot.

    speaking of “pot”, i see you say that you disagree with Ron Paul on ending the Federal War on Drugs and allowing the States to deal with their own drug legislation. do you not know that the Federal government has NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER in the business of such legislation?

    perhaps you favor the modus operandi of the REAL fascist drug business where the FDA and pharmaceutical companies have a guaranteed monopoly on which drugs are OK to push on America and her children — and i do mean PUSH!

    in my experience, i have never witnessed an illegal drug dealer “pushing” anything on children, however the government does so and D.A.R.E. says what about it?

    there is more in this way coming down the pike, but if you’d rather support such an antio-American model, then continue supporting the failed Federal War on Drugs, which is REALLY a War on PEOPLE!

    also on abortion, the Federal government has NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER in this issue. States deal with murder, not the FED’s. it’s ridiculous to have a few corrupt “officials” in the Federal government decide something as important as at what point a mother can kill her own baby.

    furthermore, there really should be no debate over abortion. we already have a scientifically and socially accepted definition of LIFE which is when there is BRAIN ACTIVITY. but apparently there is very little brain activity left in our country, and certainly less in those holding most offices of government at all levels.

    Roe VS. Wade SHOULD be overturned, as the abortion debate isn’t about privacy and ownership of a woman’s body. it’s about the life of the unborn child. Ron Paul is taking the ONLY realistic approach of the issue by advocating it be moved to a matter for States to decide.

    regarding WW4 (do you mean WW3?), i am also opposed to ANY intolerant group of people, be they religious or secular, who presents a threat to LIBERTY. however, our current occupation of Iraq has been a fiasco from the onset, and how long do we want our American soldiers to die, and for what cause really?

    the actions of our government in passing legislation which reduces our liberty has given the terrorists a victorious morale booster. those who oppose freedom because they either don’t understand what freedom is or have been brainwashed into believing some false prophet, love to see humans lose their freedoms. this is EXACTLY what has happened since 911, and it cannot be denied unless one is not in touch with reality.

    Asheville ALONE has been witnessing the ever growing police state and many Americans are waking up to the realization to expect more of the same. the 1984 story was just a few decades ahead of itself, for at the rate we are going, it won’t be long! currently, we laugh at the phrase, “DON’T TASE ME BRO!”, however, unless something changes, we won’t be laughing at it for much longer.

    just last week at the UNCA Liberty & Freedom Festival, a UNCA security guard harassed a student who was doing nothing but minding his own business. this disrespectful guard told him to empty his pockets, revealing a pocket Constitution, to which the guard took threw on the ground and stepped on! i could see a Jihad-ist doing that, but what kind of officer in uniform would do such a thing? … and at a “Liberty & Freedom Festival where there was on display the NC US Bill of Rights! oh, i wish i was there for that one!

    many have falsely accused Ron Paul as being an isolationist. he is a NON-INTERVENTIONIST, which is a BIG difference! he holds the same views as our founding fathers who warned us NOT to get entangled in foreign affairs. however, Ron Paul has stated he is prepared to go to war, in accordance with the provisions within the Constitution, if there be an attack, or eminent attack, upon America.

    THIS is the proper means by which America goes to war! we don’t break off from pursuing those who claim to have orchestrated and carried out the single most horrific attack against civilians on American soil! if Ron Paul was at the helm during 911, justice would have already been served.

    there seems to be absolutely no reason to keep our troops in Iraq, and so many other countries for that matter. if we had been securing our borders for the past several decades rather than securing other nations’ borders, perhaps we wouldn’t have the MASSIVE illegal alien problem we currently face.

    i’m perhaps not as strict a non-interventionist as Ron Paul. i believe we should allow for the provision to help our fellow man when genocide occurs in a foreign land. however, while i am not a foreign policy expert, i have played my share of war games and i’ve learned one thing:

    when your enemies are fighting one another, it is not savvy to get in the middle of it and heave them both turn on you; it’s better to wait until they cripple one another so that you can have the upper hand and nearly guarantee victory. from what i can tell about the Middle Eastern countries, this is very often the scenario, yet we just keep stirring up the hornet’s nest to rally the Jihad-ists against us in mass.

    there is no doubt militant Islam (the only kind i know of thus far) is definitely a threat to Western society. anyone who doesn’t understand this is very deceived. however, it is NOT the largest threat to US.

    the largest threat to We the People is the consistent attacks against the US Constitution and loss of our liberties. if this continues, we have no reason left to fight those who oppose America and the fundamental philosophies of LIBERTY on which our nation was founded.

    you speak of the anti-Civil War crowd as though they were anti-American and should have been thrown out of our country, just like American who are standing up against fighting wars designed to have no ends.

    tell me, what good came out of the Civil War? freedom for blacks? yeah, right! tell that to any black who lived between the end of the Civil War and the mid 1900’s! tell that to H.K. Edgerton who proudly wears the uniform and waves the flag of a Confederate soldier!

    more than anything else, out of the Civil War came the absolute power of the Federal government, which usurped the rights of the States and the American individual through the passing of the 14th Amendment, declaring American to now be “citizens of the U.S.” before “the State wherein they reside.” no more are We the People defined as American individuals having inalienable rights!

    and just when American patriots like me see a glimmer of hope in a Presidential candidate, who has actually been fighting for these rights for a good part of his life, when he could have just retired like most Americans who sit in their armchairs on their lazy behinds and serve to do not much more than bitch about the way things are from their point of view, we have folks like YOU who will call supporters of such a patriot “losers”!

    WAKE UP Thunderpig and realize that aside from a few issues where you might disagree with Ron Paul, the greater issue is the BIG PICTURE regarding the path on which our country is headed. if you care about the future of America, you will change your tune and begin advocating North Carolinians vote for Ron Paul in the GOP primary on May 6, 2008.

    otherwise, you should shutter to think which of the other Presidential candidates in the running will take the helm of our corrupt Federal government!

    peace, Godbless, and Happy Thanksgiving to America for patriots who champion our Constitution like Ron Paul!

    😎

    bernard baruch carman
    http://www.SeedsOfTruth.org
    ∞∞∞

  7. Robert MacCargar said

    I think that you are forgetting what “conservative” means. Anyone who prays for war……is answered ten fold. We (America) have a very poor history…..we are the only nation to use Nuclear Weapons against innocent civilians. We are constantly doing what we tell others not to. To go to war Iran, will most certainly, start WWIII. The shift in alliances between Russia, China, and other nations….are surely posturing against us. For every citizen, who is taking a war drum stance….I say this….go down to your local recruiter and sign up…..put, your life where your mouth is (and yes, I am a combat veteran). ONLY FOOLS want to go to war…..for whatever reason……RON PAUL is the only hope for our Nation to save itself…from destruction…..Learn from History….or you are doomed to repeat it. Every Great Nation from the past has destroyed itself….WAKE UP!!!……this Revolution is being televised…

  8. Thunder Pig said

    bernard:

    hey “Thunderpig”, if you’d like, you can come down to the overpass and call us “losers”, “idiots” and “retards” to our faces… how about that?

    OR, do you prefer to continue sitting at home in comfort behind your keyboard and call us names like an adolescent?

    ======I would view that as violating your right to speak. I’ll let the voters remove the man you support. I do not blog from home, I blog from an office loaned to me for the purpose. (8ft x 12 ft and no windows)
    as to name calling, listen to the podcast of you guys carrying on in the Matt Cave during your August appearance on the “Take A Stand” Show, where you guys laugh, giggle, jeer and call neocons like me names. Buddy, you started it, and if you want to finish it, we can arrange to meet. I am a neocon in every sense that you despise, excepting not being a Jew. (I have met Bibi Netanyahu in person…does that count?)
    ===========

    when will “YOU PEOPLE” accept reality? by this, i’m speaking of all the diluted (I assume you mean deluded) people who think it’s impossible for the Ron Paul campaign to be making as much traction as it is.

    and in doing so, it doesn’t mean his SUPPORTERS are “worshipers” or “followers”, as the media, along with misguided people on misc blogs like you, have been portraying. i am in touch with literally hundreds of Ron Paul supporters who would laugh at the mere suggestion of RP being some kind of “Messiah”! consider getting real!

    =====I give you Ron Paul, Messiah?, and the derision his supporters raise in forums all across this land. I’m guessing you are ignoring the hundreds of you tube videos, and thousands of blog posts, where people speak of this man as selfless…
    ===========

    and now your suggest Ron Paul is a “tyrant wishing to be born”? are you going to refuse to accept the fact that our country has been run by tyrants for decades (or longer), and then accuse one of the only Congressmen who actually upholds his oath of office to uphold the US Constitution? are you completely mad, or just deceived?

    and then some other uninformed or ignorant person here claims Ron Paul and/or his supporters are “fascist”, with which you apparently agree to a large degree or you would have replied to that statement. everyone reading this apparently nonsensical blog of yours should consider:

    fascism: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

    if anyone does just the slightest bit of research about Ron Paul and his philosophy would know without a shadow of doubt that he is NOT a fascist, nor authoritarian of any kind. but keep talking this nonsense as your local credibility goes to pot.

    =====In my view, our nation fell to tyrants shortly after the U.S. Constitution was amended to allow for the popular election of Senators…removing the important check of State Power to counter the rabble that is the U.S. House, and the Presidency…also changing appointment of Justices into a political act.
    If Ron Paul is truly anti-fascsit…why will he not disavow contributions and the support of White Supremacists? (I would very likely even go so far to forgive him and his supporters if he were to make a statement by donating the contributions that could be tracked to White Supremacists to charities helping inner city youths, jewish charities, or to one of my favorite charities, American Friends of Magen David Adom, with whom I am an EMT, volunteering my services in Israel when I can afford to do so.

    As to fascism, and the fascist comment, I laughed when i saw it. if we were under a fascist government, traitors would not be allowed to protest at the School Of the Americas, and any number of other protests that take place.
    I generally do not respond to anon posters who leave a one liner unless it really pisses me off, or it otherwise strike me.
    =============

    speaking of “pot”, i see you say that you disagree with Ron Paul on ending the Federal War on Drugs and allowing the States to deal with their own drug legislation. do you not know that the Federal government has NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER in the business of such legislation?

    perhaps you favor the modus operandi of the REAL fascist drug business where the FDA and pharmaceutical companies have a guaranteed monopoly on which drugs are OK to push on America and her children — and i do mean PUSH!

    in my experience, i have never witnessed an illegal drug dealer “pushing” anything on children, however the government does so and D.A.R.E. says what about it?

    there is more in this way coming down the pike, but if you’d rather support such an antio-American model, then continue supporting the failed Federal War on Drugs, which is REALLY a War on PEOPLE!

    ====As to the War on Drugs, I feel VERY STRONGLY about our need to crush the drug trade. I have been in the trenches as a First Responder and EMT…seeing first hand the devastation these drugs cause, and pot is one of the most deadly eroders of the public morals. Trust me, I take personal action where I am aware of users, dealers, and mules, and most especially growers. I wish the government would execute people on their third conviction for transporting or dealing drugs. Now, I hope we are clear where I stand on the illicit drug trade.
    ======================

    also on abortion, the Federal government has NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER in this issue. States deal with murder, not the FED’s. it’s ridiculous to have a few corrupt “officials” in the Federal government decide something as important as at what point a mother can kill her own baby.

    furthermore, there really should be no debate over abortion. we already have a scientifically and socially accepted definition of LIFE which is when there is BRAIN ACTIVITY. but apparently there is very little brain activity left in our country, and certainly less in those holding most offices of government at all levels.

    Roe VS. Wade SHOULD be overturned, as the abortion debate isn’t about privacy and ownership of a woman’s body. it’s about the life of the unborn child. Ron Paul is taking the ONLY realistic approach of the issue by advocating it be moved to a matter for States to decide.

    ===Abortion is the murder of the most defenseless among us, and those who perform abortions should be treated as Mass Murderers. The VERY PURPOSE of government as put forth in Romans Chapter 13 is to protect the innocent from evil, and the murder of them before they can even be born is among the most heinious things a person can do, or support, or allow to happen without actively opposing the murders. (And I don’t mean kill the doctors)
    ================

    regarding WW4 (do you mean WW3?),

    ====== A Quick History Lesson:

    WW1…fought mainly from 1914 to 1918; mostly confined to Europe

    WW2…fought mainly from 1936 to 1945; truly global in nature

    WW3…fought mainly from 1947 to 1989; between USA and its allies and the USSR, the Warsaw Pact, and Red China.

    WW4…fought mainly from 1979 to present; generally recognized as beginning with the Iranian Revolution, although some hold that the Arab-Israeli Wars were the first hot phase of the war.
    =================

    i am also opposed to ANY intolerant group of people, be they religious or secular, who presents a threat to LIBERTY. however, our current occupation of Iraq has been a fiasco from the onset, and how long do we want our American soldiers to die, and for what cause really?

    =====The War to Liberate Iraq is one of the most successful wars ever to be fought in the history of mankind, and the occupation one of the most successful as well…far more successful than Germany, and with far fewer lives lost.
    You really need to read the WWIV Section of West Carolina Report to get the scoop on what is really going on in Iraq, and in other theaters of World War IV. This week, I am highlighting the actions of collaborators with our enemy on the Spotlight On… page, where I link to multiple sources of information, both on our side, and the enemies.
    ===============

    the actions of our government in passing legislation which reduces our liberty has given the terrorists a victorious morale booster. those who oppose freedom because they either don’t understand what freedom is or have been brainwashed into believing some false prophet, love to see humans lose their freedoms. this is EXACTLY what has happened since 911, and it cannot be denied unless one is not in touch with reality.

    Asheville ALONE has been witnessing the ever growing police state and many Americans are waking up to the realization to expect more of the same. the 1984 story was just a few decades ahead of itself, for at the rate we are going, it won’t be long! currently, we laugh at the phrase, “DON’T TASE ME BRO!”, however, unless something changes, we won’t be laughing at it for much longer.

    =====The PATRIOT ACT has been crippled, and you should read this guy’s book before you condemn this valuable tool in this war. I think Andrew Myers should have been hit with the taser more often, or given a wooden shampoo for being such an Drama Queen.
    ===================

    just last week at the UNCA Liberty & Freedom Festival, a UNCA security guard harassed a student who was doing nothing but minding his own business. this disrespectful guard told him to empty his pockets, revealing a pocket Constitution, to which the guard took threw on the ground and stepped on! i could see a Jihad-ist doing that, but what kind of officer in uniform would do such a thing? … and at a “Liberty & Freedom Festival where there was on display the NC US Bill of Rights! oh, i wish i was there for that one!

    ===I wish you were, too. I did not see it, so cannot vouchsafe it’s veracity. I will take your word under advisement, though.
    =================

    many have falsely accused Ron Paul as being an isolationist. he is a NON-INTERVENTIONIST, which is a BIG difference! he holds the same views as our founding fathers who warned us NOT to get entangled in foreign affairs. however, Ron Paul has stated he is prepared to go to war, in accordance with the provisions within the Constitution, if there be an attack, or eminent attack, upon America.

    ====The Founding Fathers lived at a time when the oceans provided our best defense. They no longer count, for we now live in a time of perpetual war, to be fought until one side emerges as the sole survivor. See this introduction of the new type of war, and then this website, where some of the theory is fleshed out.

    The 9/11 Truther Movement is a tool of those who would destroy America, and you are being used by them as well.
    ==================

    THIS is the proper means by which America goes to war! we don’t break off from pursuing those who claim to have orchestrated and carried out the single most horrific attack against civilians on American soil! if Ron Paul was at the helm during 911, justice would have already been served.

    there seems to be absolutely no reason to keep our troops in Iraq, and so many other countries for that matter. if we had been securing our borders for the past several decades rather than securing other nations’ borders, perhaps we wouldn’t have the MASSIVE illegal alien problem we currently face.

    ===This war will last decades no matter who was President, for he does not act in a vacuum, he has to convince Congress to go along with him, and they will restrict his desired actions.
    Even if we nuked Mecca, Median, Qom, Lahore, and Karbala…the war would continue, for behind them I see Russia and China as the major players outside the ring assisting the jihadis where they find them…despite there own domestic wars against Muslims.
    ============

    i’m perhaps not as strict a non-interventionist as Ron Paul. i believe we should allow for the provision to help our fellow man when genocide occurs in a foreign land. however, while i am not a foreign policy expert, i have played my share of war games and i’ve learned one thing:

    =====about wargames….RISK!!!! I fondly remember many an evening (and several weekends) spent in pursuit of world domination. I played others, but nothing could compare to the simplicity of play that allowed some strange things to occur. (A group of us even added nukes, navies, and suborbital bombers before the latest invasion of Iraq seperated us once and for all.) The computer games all take to long to play, and can’t be taken outside, or played during the long power outages of winter time.
    ==========

    when your enemies are fighting one another, it is not savvy to get in the middle of it and heave them both turn on you; it’s better to wait until they cripple one another so that you can have the upper hand and nearly guarantee victory. from what i can tell about the Middle Eastern countries, this is very often the scenario, yet we just keep stirring up the hornet’s nest to rally the Jihad-ists against us in mass.

    ===The biggest success of the Iraqi Invasion has been attracting jihadis to Iraq, and causing al-Qaeda (and sympathizers) to spend their treasure on a battle they could not win. Part of the Strategy actually involves in letting the media present the war as a hopleless cause for us. This has given them hope, and caused them to pour even more down the (to them) rat hole. Trust me when I tell you this, President George W. Bush is a genius after sun Tzu. Personally, I have always found it advantageous to have people underestimate me in all ways, even affecting a halting speech pattern, and appearing weak of mind and body.
    ============

    there is no doubt militant Islam (the only kind i know of thus far) is definitely a threat to Western society. anyone who doesn’t understand this is very deceived. however, it is NOT the largest threat to US.

    the largest threat to We the People is the consistent attacks against the US Constitution and loss of our liberties. if this continues, we have no reason left to fight those who oppose America and the fundamental philosophies of LIBERTY on which our nation was founded.

    ===Here we will have to diagree, I think Progressives pose a far greater threat than do the jihadis.
    ==========

    you speak of the anti-Civil War crowd as though they were anti-American and should have been thrown out of our country, just like American who are standing up against fighting wars designed to have no ends.

    tell me, what good came out of the Civil War? freedom for blacks? yeah, right! tell that to any black who lived between the end of the Civil War and the mid 1900’s! tell that to H.K. Edgerton who proudly wears the uniform and waves the flag of a Confederate soldier!

    more than anything else, out of the Civil War came the absolute power of the Federal government, which usurped the rights of the States and the American individual through the passing of the 14th Amendment, declaring American to now be “citizens of the U.S.” before “the State wherein they reside.” no more are We the People defined as American individuals having inalienable rights!

    ====Lincoln did toss some out of the country and even suspended habeas corpus, an act I support. THe very survival of the Union was at stake. And to wax cliche…the Constitution is not a suicide pact. And yes, if I had been alive during the Civil War, I would have fought for the south on the grounds that I believe a state has the right to seceed fromt he Union. Lincoln played to win. Jeff Davis did not.
    ===========

    and just when American patriots like me see a glimmer of hope in a Presidential candidate, who has actually been fighting for these rights for a good part of his life, when he could have just retired like most Americans who sit in their armchairs on their lazy behinds and serve to do not much more than bitch about the way things are from their point of view, we have folks like YOU who will call supporters of such a patriot “losers”!

    ===Again, I refer you to the gigglefest you, Tim Peck, Carl Milsted, and Matt Mittan had in the studios of WWNC. That show killed far more than an hour or so of time. It earned the libertarian movement an ire it will not live down for quite some time.
    =========

    WAKE UP Thunderpig and realize that aside from a few issues where you might disagree with Ron Paul, the greater issue is the BIG PICTURE regarding the path on which our country is headed. if you care about the future of America, you will change your tune and begin advocating North Carolinians vote for Ron Paul in the GOP primary on May 6, 2008.

    =====Our participation in World War IV is the over-riding issue of our time, and I will only support a candidate who will fight the enemy. I would even vote for Hillary Clinton over Ron Paul because she will fight the war, whereas Ron Paul would snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
    =======

    otherwise, you should shutter (shudder?) to think which of the other Presidential candidates in the running will take the helm of our corrupt Federal government!

    ====The GOP Field is a deep field this time around, and any of them (of those who are left) would do the job, save Ron Paul.
    ======

    You may find this hard to believe, I admired the guy before this bid for the Presidency. He will earn my utter contempt if he tries to go third party, and his followers can expect to be ridiculed for tilting at windmills at every opportunity I get.

    peace, Godbless, and Happy Thanksgiving to America for patriots who champion our Constitution like Ron Paul!

    ====Have a Happy Thanks Giving, and realize that we celebrate the Holiday to thank God for saving us from the Communism of the Mayflower Compact.

    Perhaps, one day, the rift will be healed between conservatives and libertarians. After all, conservatism was re-birthed in America by Hayek’s arrival on our shores. For that, I will always remain thankful.

  9. Thunder Pig said

    Robert:

    NIce to see you here!!! I called one day when I locked three sets of keys in my truck, but you were on the other end of the county…and I managed to break in anyway using my pocket knife.

    I have used the convention of putting = between my responses to you………

    I think that you are forgetting what “conservative” means.

    ========
    These are the Ten Principles of Conservatism as put forth by Dr. Kirk:

    First, the conservative believes that there exists an enduring moral order.

    Second, the conservative adheres to custom, convention, and continuity.

    Third, conservatives believe in what may be called the principle of prescription.

    Fourth, conservatives are guided by their principle of prudence.

    Fifth, conservatives pay attention to the principle of variety.

    Sixth, conservatives are chastened by their principle of imperfectability.

    Seventh, conservatives are persuaded that freedom and property are closely linked.

    Eighth, conservatives uphold voluntary community, quite as they oppose involuntary collectivism.

    Ninth, the conservative perceives the need for prudent restraints upon power and upon human passions.

    Tenth, the thinking conservative understands that permanence and change must be recognized and reconciled in a vigorous society.

    And libertarians are not conservative….

    =====================

    Anyone who prays for war……is answered ten fold. We (America) have a very poor history…..we are the only nation to use Nuclear Weapons against innocent civilians.

    =======
    If it were really civilians you were concerned about, you should whine about the firebombings of Dresden and Tokyo, where more people were killed than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I hold that all of the above were legitimate military targets, and would release the bombs myself, if I were able to go back in time and given achoice.
    ==========

    We are constantly doing what we tell others not to. To go to war Iran, will most certainly, start WWIII.

    ========
    Wake up! WW3 has already been fought. (We won, BTW) It was fought from 1947 to 1989 and the main opponent was the USSR. I even have a TIME reference to the beginning of WW3 before the pro-Communists in the USA took control of our media, and made it unpoular to refer to our War with the USSR.
    ================

    The shift in alliances between Russia, China, and other nations….are surely posturing against us. For every citizen, who is taking a war drum stance….I say this….go down to your local recruiter and sign up…..put, your life where your mouth is (and yes, I am a combat veteran).

    ==========
    I, too served, though not in the military. I did wet work in Latin America, Arkansas, and in KOsovo. I retired in 2001.
    Some wars are necessary, and this one is worth every last man, woman, and child…our very existence. If we lose this war, the lights go out for western civilization for generations.
    ===============

    ONLY FOOLS want to go to war…..for whatever reason……RON PAUL is the only hope for our Nation to save itself…from destruction…..Learn from History….or you are doomed to repeat it. Every Great Nation from the past has destroyed itself….WAKE UP!!!……this Revolution is being televised…

    ============
    I agree with a lot of what Dr Paul says. His opposition to this war is enough to make him my enemy, and the enemy of America.
    He will not win the nomination, and he will not be President.

    Thank You for commenting.

  10. Thunder Pig said

    Bernard:

    About the fascist comment…did you follow the link to the American Thinker Article?

    I am monitoring several White Supremacist Message Boards as part of an anti-hate group, and Ron Paul is their man.
    ’nuff said…you should follow my links to read more about it.

  11. bernard b carman said

    first to answer your recent question, no, i have not followed these links to racist groups, among whom there are apparently some Ron Paul supporters. i’d rather just let those who are opposed to Ron Paul make their wild claims of this, and also the ones about militant Islamists and others who supposedly make up the majority of the Ron Paul support.

    in response to your earlier post:

    TP: as to name calling, listen to the podcast of you guys carrying on in the Matt Cave during your August appearance on the “Take A Stand” Show, where you guys laugh, giggle, jeer and call neocons like me names. Buddy, you started it, and if you want to finish it, we can arrange to meet. I am a neocon in every sense that you despise, excepting not being a Jew. (I have met Bibi Netanyahu in person…does that count?)

    bbc: again with this “you guys”. do you have “us” confused with someone else, perhaps? i recall being on the Mittan show in August, but i do not recall myself, nor Tim Peck, nor Carl Milsted calling anyone any names at all!

    we refuted the idiotic notions from some of these people who called into the show, but never called anyone any names to the best of my recollection. by some of the “idiotic notions”, i mean a call to return to prohibition of alcohol! one deceived hypocrite actually claimed it is the responsibility of the State to put “drug users” in jail because it is a “sin”. he then confessed he was “overweight” to which Carl justifiably responded that HE should go to jail then (using his same logic).

    however, if your “if you want to finish it, we can arrange to meet” is supposed to be some kind of “threat”? the Ron Paul Revolution is a peaceful one! perhaps you need to add a window to your office so that you might not be so apt to get cranky and begin making ASSumptions about others who are standing up for liberty, nor calling them childish names.

    and where the heck do you get the idea that i’m racist? FYI, i’m a Sabbath and Holy Day observing follower of Christ, so i have a lot of religious beliefs in common with both mainstream Christians and “Jews”.

    TP: =====I give you Ron Paul, Messiah?, and the derision his supporters raise in forums all across this land. I’m guessing you are ignoring the hundreds of you tube videos, and thousands of blog posts, where people speak of this man as selfless…

    bbc: “Messiah” is WAY over the top, and you know that. one reason for the massive support from Americans is because We the People are sick and tired of having liars and anti-American politicians running our country who don’t even uphold their oath of office. by comparison, perhaps Ron Paul does seem to be “America’s POLITICAL saviour”.

    TP: =====In my view, our nation fell to tyrants shortly after the U.S. Constitution was amended to allow for the popular election of Senators…removing the important check of State Power to counter the rabble that is the U.S. House, and the Presidency…also changing appointment of Justices into a political act.

    bbc: perhaps you are correct in this, i’m not as well educated on this matter. however, seems that some form of term limits would correct this problem. i’m open to suggestions.

    TP: If Ron Paul is truly anti-fascsit…why will he not disavow contributions and the support of White Supremacists? (I would very likely even go so far to forgive him and his supporters if he were to make a statement by donating the contributions that could be tracked to White Supremacists to charities helping inner city youths, jewish charities, or to one of my favorite charities, American Friends of Magen David Adom, with whom I am an EMT, volunteering my services in Israel when I can afford to do so.

    bbc: as if Ron Paul and his campaign has nothing else to do but try and track down who might be a white supremacist who happens to support him! i despise racism, but if a racist wants to give money to the Ron Paul campaign, GREAT!

    TP: As to fascism, and the fascist comment, I laughed when i saw it. if we were under a fascist government, traitors would not be allowed to protest at the School Of the Americas, and any number of other protests that take place.
    I generally do not respond to anon posters who leave a one liner unless it really pisses me off, or it otherwise strike me.

    bbc: the attacks against freedom of speech, among many other inalienable individual rights, is ongoing. if you don’t know this, you aren’t really qualified as being a voice for LIBERTY.

    TP: ====As to the War on Drugs, I feel VERY STRONGLY about our need to crush the drug trade.

    bbc: if this is true, you should be in opposition to the Federal War on Drugs People! see L.E.A.P.

    TP: I have been in the trenches as a First Responder and EMT…seeing first hand the devastation these drugs cause, and pot is one of the most deadly eroders of the public morals.

    bbc: LOL!!! i guess you have never been around people who have drinking problems!

    TP: Trust me, I take personal action where I am aware of users, dealers, and mules, and most especially growers. I wish the government would execute people on their third conviction for transporting or dealing drugs. Now, I hope we are clear where I stand on the illicit drug trade.

    bbc: you give the impression that you are a very inhumane and potentially dangerous person. thank GOD you are not running this country! would you also have your “Nazi-Draconian dream government” execute makers and runners of moonshine as well? if this is the kind of philosophy you have, it seems like your blog is not only a complete waste of time for everyone involved, but also perhaps sowing the seeds of hate.

    TP: ===Abortion is the murder of the most defenseless among us, and those who perform abortions should be treated as Mass Murderers. The VERY PURPOSE of government as put forth in Romans Chapter 13 is to protect the innocent from evil, and the murder of them before they can even be born is among the most heinious things a person can do, or support, or allow to happen without actively opposing the murders. (And I don’t mean kill the doctors)

    bbc: as i said, i agree that abortion is murder. i also know that there is a LOT of deception in this world due to the influences of Satan, and therefore many people make very bad decisions which they do not fully understand. however, you apparently feel you have no sin and prefer to be judge, jury and executioner. very scary indeed!

    TP: regarding WW4 (do you mean WW3?),

    ====== A Quick History Lesson:

    WW1…fought mainly from 1914 to 1918; mostly confined to Europe

    WW2…fought mainly from 1936 to 1945; truly global in nature

    WW3…fought mainly from 1947 to 1989; between USA and its allies and the USSR, the Warsaw Pact, and Red China.

    WW4…fought mainly from 1979 to present; generally recognized as beginning with the Iranian Revolution, although some hold that the Arab-Israeli Wars were the first hot phase of the war.

    bbc: interesting history lesson. i was unaware there were 2 world wars that the rest of us missed, but i’m open to at least considering people’s points of view before dismissing them.

    TP: =====The War to Liberate Iraq is one of the most successful wars ever to be fought in the history of mankind, and the occupation one of the most successful as well…far more successful than Germany, and with far fewer lives lost.
    You really need to read the WWIV Section of West Carolina Report to get the scoop on what is really going on in Iraq, and in other theaters of World War IV. This week, I am highlighting the actions of collaborators with our enemy on the Spotlight On… page, where I link to multiple sources of information, both on our side, and the enemies.

    bbc: no thanks. it is quite clear that your idea of “successful” is something very different than anyone else would imagine. if allowing our soldiers to die while we continue to loose more of our freedoms is “successful” in your OPINION, then i really have no need to follow up on your “sources”.

    again, because i disagree with your assessment, please do not lump me into some group of “Islam sympathizers”. i believe Islam is an evil religion because it explicitly holds the philosophy that humans should accept Islam or die. most other religions – even satanism! – are tolerant to others’ religious beliefs.

    however, Neo-conism also seems to be turning into an intolerant religion that will deem freedom lovers like me (“Classic Americans”) as some kind of potential terrorist just for being a threat to authoritarianism.

    TP: =====The PATRIOT ACT has been crippled, and you should read this guy’s book before you condemn this valuable tool in this war. I think Andrew Myers should have been hit with the taser more often, or given a wooden shampoo for being such an Drama Queen.

    bbc: the USA PATRIOT ACT is anything by patriotic. it’s a tool of authoritarians against Classic Americans who desire to be FREE! even though Andrew Myers is perhaps a drama queen, the power hungry security guards had NO right to grab him while he was walking away from the mic. that’s the fact — it’s all on video as proof of what happened. it was yet ANOTHER attack on free speech!

    TP: [UNCA incident] I wish you were, too. I did not see it, so cannot vouchsafe it’s veracity. I will take your word under advisement, though.

    bbc: the UNCA harassment including the security guard stepping on the pocket Constitution is true — i know the student who was harassed. you can follow it up if you’d like.

    TP: ====The Founding Fathers lived at a time when the oceans provided our best defense. They no longer count, for we now live in a time of perpetual war, to be fought until one side emerges as the sole survivor. See this introduction of the new type of war, and then this website, where some of the theory is fleshed out.

    bbc: i understand that it is a much smaller world these days. however, let’s not make up falsehoods for entering into war with another country.

    TP: The 9/11 Truther Movement is a tool of those who would destroy America, and you are being used by them as well.

    bbc: i try and keep my thought regarding 9/11 separate from my involvement with the Ron Paul campaign. but i will say there are still more questions than answers. show me the FBI(?) confiscated videos from the surrounding PRIVATELY OWNED buildings near the Pentagon and i’ll buy the “official” story. until that happens, my judgement is still up in the air.

    TP: ===This war will last decades no matter who was President,

    bbc: precisely as it was designed, just like the War on Drugs People! but hey, that’s evil for ya! 😎

    TP: for he does not act in a vacuum, he has to convince Congress to go along with him, and they will restrict his desired actions.
    Even if we nuked Mecca, Median, Qom, Lahore, and Karbala…the war would continue, for behind them I see Russia and China as the major players outside the ring assisting the jihadis where they find them…despite there own domestic wars against Muslims.

    bbc: then call this “war” what it is: a war with Islam, and let’s stop beating around the Bush! we’d be better off confronting the leaders of Islam, and when they come out and say “death to all those who do not accept Allah & Islam,” we kill them! intolerant militant religion is something people can get behind!

    again, the paramount principle we MUST remember for the success of America (or any nation or organization) is United We Stand, Divided We Fall. if we continue on this present course, no matter where we disagree, we as a country will fall!

    TP: =====about wargames….RISK!!!! I fondly remember many an evening (and several weekends) spent in pursuit of world domination. I played others, but nothing could compare to the simplicity of play that allowed some strange things to occur. (A group of us even added nukes, navies, and suborbital bombers before the latest invasion of Iraq seperated us once and for all.) The computer games all take to long to play, and can’t be taken outside, or played during the long power outages of winter time.

    bbc: ahh, a kindred spirit in at least one way! yes, we play various games. i’m what some would call a “gamer” or even “geek”. 😎 we have come up with a very good version of Nuclear RISK, which i intend on putting on my website… once there is one up again.

    TP: ===The biggest success of the Iraqi Invasion has been attracting jihadis to Iraq, and causing al-Qaeda (and sympathizers) to spend their treasure on a battle they could not win. Part of the Strategy actually involves in letting the media present the war as a hopleless cause for us. This has given them hope, and caused them to pour even more down the (to them) rat hole. Trust me when I tell you this, President George W. Bush is a genius after sun Tzu. Personally, I have always found it advantageous to have people underestimate me in all ways, even affecting a halting speech pattern, and appearing weak of mind and body.

    bbc: i believe history will prove you wrong about the “genius” of the Bush administration and its Iraq fiasco. right now, the terrorists are winning because Americans have lost rights, and are continuing to lose more, while we lose our soldiers. it’s a win-win situation for them.

    no, better would be to make Islam show itself for what it is, then wage a war on those who practice it in the strictest sense.

    bbc: there is no doubt militant Islam (the only kind i know of thus far) is definitely a threat to Western society. anyone who doesn’t understand this is very deceived. however, it is NOT the largest threat to US.

    the largest threat to We the People is the consistent attacks against the US Constitution and loss of our liberties. if this continues, we have no reason left to fight those who oppose America and the fundamental philosophies of LIBERTY on which our nation was founded.

    TP: ===Here we will have to diagree, I think Progressives pose a far greater threat than do the jihadis.

    bbc: i’m not sure we are in disagreement here. however, i see it as not only the “Progressives” (the most evil of which i call, “Neo-Coms”) but also the “Neo-Cons” who have been in control of all 3 branches of government for a very long time now.

    TP: ====Lincoln did toss some out of the country and even suspended habeas corpus, an act I support. THe very survival of the Union was at stake. And to wax cliche…the Constitution is not a suicide pact. And yes, if I had been alive during the Civil War, I would have fought for the south on the grounds that I believe a state has the right to seceed fromt he Union. Lincoln played to win. Jeff Davis did not.

    bbc: suspending habeas corpus seems to be a very, very dangerous action for the free man. the way our police state is growing, it is wise to resist such actions from ‘on high’. if the Civil War never began, Lincoln would have never thought to need to do such a thing.

    innocence until proven guilty is not heard much anymore, in fact, the reverse is becoming the norm. this is anti-American.

    TP: ===Again, I refer you to the gigglefest you, Tim Peck, Carl Milsted, and Matt Mittan had in the studios of WWNC. That show killed far more than an hour or so of time. It earned the libertarian movement an ire it will not live down for quite some time.

    bbc: well, you’ll have to refresh my memory about who of our group called anyone names. no, the over-the-top libertarians in the LP over the past 30 years have done that all by themselves! the LRC has been responsible for the rational viewpoint of the greater libertarian movement which is being made more evident through the Ron Paul campaign.

    TP: =====Our participation in World War IV is the over-riding issue of our time, and I will only support a candidate who will fight the enemy. I would even vote for Hillary Clinton over Ron Paul because she will fight the war, whereas Ron Paul would snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    bbc: well then you are deceived like several others raising the “hell ya, we trust you Federal government” flag! this is very dangerous and is nearly identical to the deception via blind nationalism through which Nazi Germany gained power and nearly conquered the world!

    God help America if this winds up being the prevailing philosophy of our time. authoritarianism will then surely have victory, whether it comes from a communist or fascist State!

    you are apparently a single issue voter. we’ve made a few fliers for folks who fall into this category on the two most contentious issues on which anti-Ron Paul people get caught up (yours would be the “Adamant Pro-War?” side): http://files.meetup.com/557420/Single%20Issue%20Voter%20Flier%20NC.pdf

    TP: ====The GOP Field is a deep field this time around, and any of them (of those who are left) would do the job, save Ron Paul.

    bbc: delusion abounds from your side of this discussion. WOW, what horrors would continue to befall America should Ghoul-iani or Romney be at our helm! (let alone Hillary or Obama!) let us seriously pray this does not happen… unless we want America to go down as fast as possible!

    TP: You may find this hard to believe, I admired the guy before this bid for the Presidency. He will earn my utter contempt if he tries to go third party, and his followers can expect to be ridiculed for tilting at windmills at every opportunity I get.

    bbc: no, i don’t. i have a very good friend i met through church that admires Ron Paul, but only in Congress, and only for his stance on non-interventionism. he also believes the primary threat to America is Islam — and he’s the biggest Star Wars geek there is and doesn’t even see the parallel between the “Republic” (forming into an “Empire”) and America in episode 6.

    again, Islam and its fanatic followers IS a threat, but you guys are deceived into believing it’s our largest threat.

    our loss of individual LIBERTY is definitely what you should be more concerned about.

    United We Stand, Divided We Fall!

    TP: ====Have a Happy Thanks Giving, and realize that we celebrate the Holiday to thank God for saving us from the Communism of the Mayflower Compact.

    bbc: it’s a bigger picture than that. God saved us from authoritarianism, the goal to which Communism & Fascism are merely a path… a path America is currently on.

    TP: Perhaps, one day, the rift will be healed between conservatives and libertarians. After all, conservatism was re-birthed in America by Hayek’s arrival on our shores. For that, I will always remain thankful.

    bbc: once “conservatives” & “liberals” realize that authoritarianism is not the correct path, and “libertarians” realize they cannot have complete anarchy, these rifts will be healed. my personal opinion is this will never happen until Christ sets up His Kingdom here on Earth. regardless, i continue to do what i can in the name of LIBERTY.

    😎

    bernard baruch carman
    – seeker of truth / seeder of truth • http://www.SeedsOfTruth.orghttp://www.FellowshipOfTheWord.org
    – Born to Win supporter • http://www.BornToWin.net
    – Libertarian Reform Caucus • http://www.ReformTheLP.org
    – chairman, Libertarian Party-Buncombe • chairman@LPbuncombe.orghttp://www.LPbuncombe.org
    – Ron Paul Revolution • http://www.RonPaul2008.com • Google Ron Paul for President!
    – We The People supporter • http://www.GiveMeLiberty.org
    – audio/mac specialist • infinity solutions • bbc@infinitygames.com
    •••

  12. Thunder Pig said

    bbc: again with this “you guys”. do you have “us” confused with someone else, perhaps? i recall being on the Mittan show in August, but i do not recall myself, nor Tim Peck, nor Carl Milsted calling anyone any names at all!

    we refuted the idiotic notions from some of these people who called into the show, but never called anyone any names to the best of my recollection. by some of the “idiotic notions”, i mean a call to return to prohibition of alcohol! one deceived hypocrite actually claimed it is the responsibility of the State to put “drug users” in jail because it is a “sin”. he then confessed he was “overweight” to which Carl justifiably responded that HE should go to jail then (using his same logic).

    however, if your “if you want to finish it, we can arrange to meet” is supposed to be some kind of “threat”? the Ron Paul Revolution is a peaceful one! perhaps you need to add a window to your office so that you might not be so apt to get cranky and begin making ASSumptions about others who are standing up for liberty, nor calling them childish names.

    and where the heck do you get the idea that i’m racist? FYI, i’m a Sabbath and Holy Day observing follower of Christ, so i have a lot of religious beliefs in common with both mainstream Christians and “Jews”.
    TP says:
    I said “you guys” not you in particular. And, according to the audio, you were distancing yourself from the GOP Takeover. I listened to it again…you did call people names, most especially the “neocon” slur was tossed around several times.
    I’ll take that as an invitation to work up the audio and upload it when I get to a fast internet connect. I do accept apologies.
    To be fair, the other guys were more involved in the name-calling and the mocking.
    And yes, it is part of the government function to put drug users and dealers off the street.
    I could live with treatment programs to help users get over their addiction, and a graduated sentencing guideline for dealers.
    Perhaps the next time I go to the border, I’ll invite you along so you can see drug dealers being escorted across the border by Mexican Military Units, and Drug Cartels. I am working with a buncj of other bloggers on exposing this activity…even Fox News is afraid to run the video.
    You will have to sign a non-disclosure agreement and a waiver to hold us harmless in case you get shot or something by the dealers if they catch up with us.

    No threat. I just read the mail, and was attempting to make clear to you I am not just a keyboard warrior.
    No harm, no foul.

    bbc: “Messiah” is WAY over the top, and you know that. one reason for the massive support from Americans is because We the People are sick and tired of having liars and anti-American politicians running our country who don’t even uphold their oath of office. by comparison, perhaps Ron Paul does seem to be “America’s POLITICAL saviour”.

    tp says:
    I’m guessing you do not realize that saviour and messiah are synonyms? lol
    syn of savior,
    syn of savior.
    The above is beside the point…I linked to people calling Ron Paul the messiah…let alone savior!

    bbc: perhaps you are correct in this, i’m not as well educated on this matter. however, seems that some form of term limits would correct this problem. i’m open to suggestions.
    tp says:
    I would prefer to go back to the original constitution, where the US Senators did not stand for election…they were appointed by the governors, and approved by the state legislature. Brings states rights back into the picture…also serves to limit the power of the federal gummit. In this…we are prolly on the same page, or close enough to call it moot.

    bbc: if this is true, you should be in opposition to the Federal War on Drugs People! see L.E.A.P.

    tp says: I am in opposition to the way it is being fought, half-heartedly, and with rampant corruption. The drug trade generates more money than the oil trade…so you can see what we are up against.

    bbc: no thanks. it is quite clear that your idea of “successful” is something very different than anyone else would imagine. if allowing our soldiers to die while we continue to loose more of our freedoms is “successful” in your OPINION, then i really have no need to follow up on your “sources”.

    again, because i disagree with your assessment, please do not lump me into some group of “Islam sympathizers”. i believe Islam is an evil religion because it explicitly holds the philosophy that humans should accept Islam or die. most other religions – even satanism! – are tolerant to others’ religious beliefs.

    tp says:
    your unwillingness to follow links tells me your mind is made up, and you would be the juror who convicted before all the evidence is in…this is very telling.
    I spend more time reading websites that put out views I disagree with more than I spend on websites with whom I agree. Most of my dearest friends are on the other side of the political fence than I in some important way. You will never grow unless you see where the other person is coming from, and know the ground you stand upon is firm.

    bbc: i believe history will prove you wrong about the “genius” of the Bush administration and its Iraq fiasco. right now, the terrorists are winning because Americans have lost rights, and are continuing to lose more, while we lose our soldiers. it’s a win-win situation for them.

    no, better would be to make Islam show itself for what it is, then wage a war on those who practice it in the strictest sense.
    tp says:
    I do miss the days of forged military IDs to hop military transports for cheap transportation around the world…and we could keep our weapons!
    I am hesitant to give you a link (citation of source) since you can’t be bothered with a challenge to your world-view…here is a link to an article I posted just this morning on the success of the surge, and the real victory in Iraq…the Iraqi Army is finally able to start standing up. God willing, this will be one of our finest hours!

    That is one of the reasons I exhorted you to try reading my World War IV page on my headline news site. I link to stories (and have for over a year) that the Legacy Media are only now starting to report. You have been lied to by the Media, and have joined hands with A.N.S.W.E.R. and the W.W.P. in opposing this war. Participants in the anti-war movement can expect to receive the same treatment John F. Kerry received should they seek political office.

    bbc: well then you are deceived like several others raising the “hell ya, we trust you Federal government” flag! this is very dangerous and is nearly identical to the deception via blind nationalism through which Nazi Germany gained power and nearly conquered the world!
    tp says:
    Well, until I can secure nukes or other weapons of mass destruction myself, I will have to depend upon the feds for “the common defence”. Of course, if you had followed my links…you would have a clearer idea of what I mean when I say any citizen can join the war. I practice my liberty, and I defend it as well.

    bbc: well then you are deceived like several others raising the “hell ya, we trust you Federal government” flag! this is very dangerous and is nearly identical to the deception via blind nationalism through which Nazi Germany gained power and nearly conquered the world!

    God help America if this winds up being the prevailing philosophy of our time. authoritarianism will then surely have victory, whether it comes from a communist or fascist State!

    you are apparently a single issue voter. we’ve made a few fliers for folks who fall into this category on the two most contentious issues on which anti-Ron Paul people get caught up (yours would be the “Adamant Pro-War?” side): http://files.meetup.com/557420/Single%20Issue%20Voter%20Flier%20NC.pdf

    tp says:
    I downloaded it very shortly after it became available. Again, 5GW.

    bbc: delusion abounds from your side of this discussion. WOW, what horrors would continue to befall America should Ghoul-iani or Romney be at our helm! (let alone Hillary or Obama!) let us seriously pray this does not happen… unless we want America to go down as fast as possible!

    tp says:
    In some ways, Julie Annie and Romney may be even better for the conduct of the war than Bush43.
    Hillary would be better than any (except Biden…and he ain’t got a chance) on the Democrat side.

    bbc: once “conservatives” & “liberals” realize that authoritarianism is not the correct path, and “libertarians” realize they cannot have complete anarchy, these rifts will be healed. my personal opinion is this will never happen until Christ sets up His Kingdom here on Earth. regardless, i continue to do what i can in the name of LIBERTY.

    😎

    tp says:
    I believe that no matter who becomes President (even Ron Paul) America will be utterly destroyed and become a third (or fourth) world nation by the time of Christ’s return…in fact, I believe it may happen before the tribulation period.
    The isolationalism of Ron Paul would only accelerate that end.
    Every extra day we hold off the night, the more souls we can save.

    Good Night, and Good Luck!

  13. infinityBBC said

    TP says: I said “you guys” not you in particular. And, according to the audio, you were distancing yourself from the GOP Takeover. I listened to it again…you did call people names, most especially the “neocon” slur was tossed around several times.
    I’ll take that as an invitation to work up the audio and upload it when I get to a fast internet connect. I do accept apologies.
    To be fair, the other guys were more involved in the name-calling and the mocking.

    bbc: gee, TP… i didn’t think calling the group of ‘New Conservatives’, “Neo-Con”, was considered to be “name calling” like “loser”. what else shall We the People call them? i’ve heard worse, you know!

    and like you said, this was not a dig on any individual, but an entire group of authoritarians on the “right”, distinguished by the entire group of authoritarians on the “left” which i call “Neo-Com’s” (as in New Communists). i would think “Neo-Con” is less of a dig, as it doesn’t refer to the “authoritarian right” as “Neo-Fast’s” (New Fascists).

    however, your “losers” comment seemed very directed to those of us who stand out on the I-240 Flint St. overpass every week.

    regardless of all, if you don’t like being called a “Neo-Con”, don’t be one!

    TP: And yes, it is part of the government function to put drug users and dealers off the street.
    I could live with treatment programs to help users get over their addiction, and a graduated sentencing guideline for dealers.
    Perhaps the next time I go to the border, I’ll invite you along so you can see drug dealers being escorted across the border by Mexican Military Units, and Drug Cartels. I am working with a buncj of other bloggers on exposing this activity…even Fox News is afraid to run the video.

    bbc: perhaps the part of our government with which YOU support, but not We the People who still consider ourselves as sovereign and FREE! typical to assume that everyone who does “drugs” is addicted to them. the fact is, there is more addiction and deaths associated with legal drugs in America. the REAL pushers are the pharmaceutical companies, the FDA, the doctors who make $$$ on them, and our public school system directed by the Fed’s. and i doubt the Mexican Military Units are the only government group involved in the drug trade. ever hear of the Cocaine Import Agency? (CIA)

    TP: The above is beside the point…I linked to people calling Ron Paul the messiah…let alone savior!

    bbc: i followed your link and missed that. besides, who cares? there are nut jobs in every group… so what else is new?

    TP: I would prefer to go back to the original constitution, where the US Senators did not stand for election…they were appointed by the governors, and approved by the state legislature. Brings states rights back into the picture…also serves to limit the power of the federal gummit. In this…we are prolly on the same page, or close enough to call it moot.

    bbc: well then, if you want to roll back Federal government, Ron Paul is your only chance in doing so. you should put aside your small differences and make it so, as this opportunity might be gone forever!

    bbc: if this is true, you should be in opposition to the Federal War on Drugs People! see L.E.A.P.

    TP: I am in opposition to the way it is being fought, half-heartedly, and with rampant corruption. The drug trade generates more money than the oil trade…so you can see what we are up against.

    bbc: and it will continue to do so as long as drugs are ILLEGAL! you seem to be an intelligent person, so why do you not understand this? prohibition creates an inflated market. no matter what system you try to implement, you will always have corruption.

    TP: your unwillingness to follow links tells me your mind is made up, and you would be the juror who convicted before all the evidence is in…this is very telling…. You will never grow unless you see where the other person is coming from, and know the ground you stand upon is firm.

    bbc: man, you don’t even know me! i followed some of your links and didn’t see much of interest. besides, WHO CARES that some crazy racists support Ron Paul. if i dug a bit, how many would i find who support any of the political clowns running against him? and look at the other candidates and the authoritarians who support THEM!

    you are trying to make Ron Paul look bad by finding some lunatics who give their support to him. your point here is foolish and not even worthy of discussion, let alone my time to waste on explaining to you why if you cannot see it for yourself.

    the ground i stand upon IS firm! it’s called LIBERTY! something i fear you really don’t quite understand, but you are not alone. most of America doesn’t get it either, and THAT is the primary reason our country is falling! WAKE UP!

    here’s a link for you to check out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9kDO2s1bm0&watch_response

    now, if you want to dismiss everything to “conspiracy nuts”, then it is YOU who are standing on very weak ground!

    bbc: i believe history will prove you wrong about the “genius” of the Bush administration and its Iraq fiasco. right now, the terrorists are winning because Americans have lost rights, and are continuing to lose more, while we lose our soldiers. it’s a win-win situation for them. no, better would be to make Islam show itself for what it is, then wage a war on those who practice it in the strictest sense.

    TP: I do miss the days of forged military IDs to hop military transports for cheap transportation around the world…and we could keep our weapons! I am hesitant to give you a link (citation of source) since you can’t be bothered with a challenge to your world-view…here is a link to an article I posted just this morning on the success of the surge, and the real victory in Iraq…the Iraqi Army is finally able to start standing up. God willing, this will be one of our finest hours!
    That is one of the reasons I exhorted you to try reading my World War IV page on my headline news site. I link to stories (and have for over a year) that the Legacy Media are only now starting to report. You have been lied to by the Media, and have joined hands with A.N.S.W.E.R. and the W.W.P. in opposing this war. Participants in the anti-war movement can expect to receive the same treatment John F. Kerry received should they seek political office.

    bbc: if you are going to call it “success” to takeover Iraq, then of course i can agree, for we’re using your definition of “success”. sure, we can takeover and occupy Iraq, but i don’t see how this is considered to be “success”. will that put an end to terrorism? will it somehow soften the next terrorist attack on our soil? if you think so, how can you be so sure?

    any savvy board war gamer knows that it is dangerous to get all the others players mad at you, for they will gang up on you, and you will surely lose the game victory.

    in the real world, America has not only made other “players” angry with us, but has also alienated about half the country, turning it against itself. VERY BAD MOVE! and i cannot say it enough to the adamant pro-war camp: UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL!

    one better strategy would be to reveal intolerant and militant Islam for what it truly is, and not only most all of America will be with you in defeating it, but most all of the Western, and probably a fair amount of the rest of the world nations!

    and let’s not forget about the strategy of allowing our enemies to kill one another on their own. geeze, almost any strategy would have been better than that of the administration of King George Jr.!

    bbc: well then you are deceived like several others raising the “hell ya, we trust you Federal government” flag! this is very dangerous and is nearly identical to the deception via blind nationalism through which Nazi Germany gained power and nearly conquered the world!
    TP: Well, until I can secure nukes or other weapons of mass destruction myself, I will have to depend upon the feds for “the common defence”.

    bbc: hey, i never said i was against taking nukes out of the hands of nut jobs like Saddam. so where are these NUKES now? while the US was dicking around with the UN for about 10 years with Saddam and his not complying with the conditions of our “victory” back then, i’m sure he had plenty of time to do whatever he wanted with them.

    again, another failed fiasco, but in the hands of King George Sr. the job could have been taken care of back then when we had greater support from the other “players”, especially in the wake of genocide upon other groups of Arabs who were apparently at odds with Saddam.

    the other flaw in the typical arguments of the adamant pro-war camp is the assumption that Ron Paul would be calling every single shot without regard to military advisors. i’ll admit Ron Paul’s weakness is his lacking in knowledge of the Islam mindset, but i don’t believe that will be more of a detriment to our country than all the other candidates’ authoritarianism.

    nothing we do will entirely eliminate terrorism. however, continuing on the present authoritarian course, stripping Americans’ rights away left and right, is surely to put an end to America… and you can take that to the bank! (so long as our frail dollar stands)

    i’m looking forward to discovering what you believe the victory conditions for these wars to be. i cannot even imagine!

    TP: In some ways, Julie Annie and Romney may be even better for the conduct of the war than Bush43.
    Hillary would be better than any (except Biden…and he ain’t got a chance) on the Democrat side.

    bbc: you exemplify here the blindness of the typical American people. you are willing to throw our country away for what you believe to be our greatest threat.

    well TP, let me just again remind your that just like our own selves, the greatest threat to our country is OURSELVES! the more we sacrifice our liberties, the more we twist the dagger which has already been thrust into Lady Liberty.

    TP: I believe that no matter who becomes President (even Ron Paul) America will be utterly destroyed and become a third (or fourth) world nation by the time of Christ’s return…in fact, I believe it may happen before the tribulation period.
    The isolationalism of Ron Paul would only accelerate that end.
    Every extra day we hold off the night, the more souls we can save.

    bbc: again, you have believed a typical lie from the media and the authoritarians: Ron Paul IS NOT an isolationist, yet that is what THEY want you to believe. he is a non-interventionist. however, you can choose to believe whatever you wish, while you insist that i’m set in my beliefs. but i will remind you that hypocrisy is not becoming on anyone.

    on the direction we are headed, YES, America will destroy itself, and We the People will have its blood on our hands! of course, We the People have largely been deceived, so just as we are individual sinners and have a “partner in sin” (satan), America also shares this same partner.

    Ron Paul exemplifies America’s one of our last POLITICAL hopes. it is not HIM, but the MESSAGE upon which he stands. this is the message of LIBERTY! if We the People do not take hold of liberty NOW, it might prove to be too late on down the road.

    we, as Americans and/or Christians, can choose to sit back and allow our country to die, without even trying whatsoever to do something about it, OR we can stand up for the freedom for which every American soldier has ever fought and died.

    supporting any other candidate than Ron Paul is standing up against LIBERTY. i wish there were MANY other candidates in the running who stood on principles of liberty, but there just aren’t.

    if you think fighting for LIBERTY will only accelerate the end of America, you are so gravely deceived. i hope some day soon you will reconsider liberty as America’s only hope, for without it, what does our country really matter?

    😎

    bernard baruch carman
    – seeker of truth / seeder of truth • http://www.SeedsOfTruth.orghttp://www.FellowshipOfTheWord.org
    – Born to Win supporter • http://www.BornToWin.net
    – Ron Paul Revolution • http://www.RonPaul2008.com • Google Ron Paul!
    – We The People supporter • http://www.GiveMeLiberty.org
    – audio/mac specialist • infinity solutions • bbc@infinitygames.com
    •••

  14. Thunder Pig said

    At least I am willing to fight for votes instead of doing an end-run around the system.

    Say you guys wouldn’t consider conducting a putsch?

    Say it ain’t so!

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